The Joker is coming back. Better yet, he’s coming back in the most horrifying way possible, thanks to the superstar duo of Scott Snyder and Greg Capullo, starting in October’s Batman #13. Announced last week, Death of the Family is going to bring back the Clowned Prince of Crime after a year out of the spotlight and, well, faceless.
To get some more dirt on the story, we talked with Snyder about the Joker’s psychology, his unique relationship to the Dark Knight, and how Death of the Family will be tying into other Bat-family titles.
Hero Worship: The Appeal of the Joker
IGN Comics: So last year, Tony Daniel took off Joker’s face in Detective Comics #1. How long has Death of the Family been in the works?
It’s really meant to be the biggest, craziest, most twisted Joker story I could possibly tell. The more you think about it, one of the things that’s most interesting is that the Joker, as prevalent as he is in Batman mythology, actually isn’t in comics that much when you look back. I mean, he’s in Batman R.I.P. and he was in Batman and Robin in places, and before that he was in No Man’s Land or wherever, but he actually isn’t a central villain in Grant’s [Morrison] stuff. Even though he plays a really great role, he hasn’t been front and center and pitted against Batman in a huge way in a really long time. So even though he’s been in the animated stuff and the movies, there was a realization among us that there hasn’t been a big Joker story in a while and we’re taking him off the table for a year, so this is going to be the opportunity to bring him back in the most vicious way possible.
For me, it became really about writing a love letter or exploration of the Joker that would be my Joker story to end all of my Joker stories. Almost like if I only ever got one chance to write him, this would be it. It’s everything I love and admire and am terrified about in the Joker, all in one place. It’s got a lot of meaning to me personally; a lot of design into his psychology and the symbolism there. Everything from the history of the court jesters and the royal court and tarot cards and everything to this sort of weird Shakespearean stuff to squirting flowers and beyond. It really is an “everything and the kitchen sink Joker” in one place.
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The Joker is the guy that essentially says, 'I am the jester that serves you, king, in Gotham.'
IGN: That’s crazy. I have a couple of follow-ups to that. The first, well, you mentioned how DC took Joker off the table for a while. I always find he works best when he has been gone for a while and he kind of comes back with a bang. Why do you think he’s become such a classic villain even though he’s a character we only get in doses?
Snyder: I think he embodies all of the most terrifying things to Batman. The Joker is the guy that essentially says, “I am the jester that serves you, king, in Gotham. I bring your worst nightmares to life to make you stronger. And in that, I have a relationship with you that no one else has. I know the darkest corners of your heart and I bring those to life. I celebrate those.” He sees into Batman, saying, “Here are the things that are totally crazy about you and these are the things that I love and that make you wonderful. Let’s celebrate those by you stopping me from doing horrific things in your city.”
And in that way, he represents to me the truest and most frightening form of what a villain can be, because he’s what Batman is most frightened of about himself personified. He could descend into this kind of madness and let his pathologies get the best of him and he is crazy deep down somehow. That’s what the Joker is sort of saying to him all the time; that’s why we have they this special relationship. “All you have to do is give up Bruce Wayne and come live with me.” In that way, I think he’s not just Batman’s greatest villain but he’s such a brilliant villain in general because he represents all of these things that a villain can be to this incredible extreme.
IGN: In the past, in Black Mirror, you wrote Joker a little bit in one of the issues. Is your approach to him this time around any different than what you did in Black Mirror?
Snyder: That is sort of the seed for this Joker, in the way that that Joker seemed to know more than he should about his enemies. I think the fun, the realization there for me was the Joker was just as scary without his conventional grin. He’s wearing a mask throughout that story in the beginning, so Joker can still be Joker even when you just catch a glimpse of his eye or his hair. He can still be himself and be frightening.
So in that way, there’s a connection here but also just in the way how in that one he sees Dick Grayson and he says, “You smell like feathers, little birdie, you’re not my Batman.” So that notion that he has a deep connection and a deep familiarity and knowledge of Bruce as Batman is something that’s hugely important in this story. Joker’s got a big secret and a big axe to grind against the Bat-family, so he’s really built to this point that factors in all of the things that have been happening over the last year. In that way, I feel like it’s a story that really has a big scope but at the same time is extremely personal.
IGN: In terms of the Bat-family, they’re just coming out of the Court of Owls story. What’s different about the threats that they’re facing from the Joker – a villain that they think they know pretty well – as opposed to the Court who was completely new to them?
Snyder: For me, the idea with Court of Owls was that, when the other books played a part, it was about Gotham history. It was about those writers getting to explore a moment in Gotham history and creating a Talon that came from that era to be pitted against their heroes for reasons that were personal to what was happening in their series individually. But here, I think a lot of people have the idea that the Joker has faced off with some of these Bat-family characters before, but he really hasn’t. I mean, when you think about The Killing Joke and you think about Barbara [Gordon], you think, well, he came after Barbara and that. But he didn’t, he was coming after Commissioner Gordon and using Barbara. And similarly, in Death in the Family, he uses Jason [Todd] to get at Batman in as many ways as he’s hurting Jason too. In that way, Joker would make the argument that, “I’ve never faced off with you guys, but now I’m looking you in the eye and I’m coming for you. I will tear down and kill and burn anything in your life to break you.” They’ve never faced a nightmare like the Joker is the idea, and he’s coming for each one of those characters individually.
And you will see him in those books. What’s going to happen in Batman is a thousand percent self-contained; it’s going to be my big Joker story with Greg Capullo in Batman. You will not have to read another book to follow it whatsoever to follow it, I promise you that. It’s from #13-17, with a big, huge finale in 17 with an annual-sized issue – and we’ll be in the back-ups too, so it’ll just be a giant story that’s the equivalent of almost seven issues packed into five. Even though that will be completely self-contained in Batman, you will see Joker in the other series in self-contained ways similar to Night of the Owls, where he goes after those Bat-family members in ways that will give him a chance to completely unleash the most terrifying things you’ve seen in those series up to this point.
Batman #13 Cover
The difference between Night of the Owls and this, I think, is I love Night of the Owls because it gave us all a chance to explore the different layers of Gotham’s past, but this one is really personal. Meaning, when Joker comes after you because he’s angry, he comes after you in the most personal way possible. Even if he doesn’t care that much about you, he’s going to expose the thing he thinks you’re most afraid of about yourself and go for it. And there’s nothing off limits when you use the Joker; nothing gruesome, nothing macabre, nothing violent. In that way, this is a really different storyline than what happened in Night of the Owls because it’s extremely personal for each character.
IGN: It seems to be tempting when writing the Joker to lose focus on Batman himself – is there a trick to making sure you keep that balance?
Snyder: I think the key is that Joker is all about Batman. He exists to be the demon on Batman’s shoulder. Here, we won’t lose focus on Batman because it’s told through Batman’s point of view, and then Joker is haunting him, almost, throughout. The Joker is there to say, “You’ve forgotten important things and I’m going to prove those to you.” So the trick to not losing Batman in a Joker story is that, at least in my interpretation of the Joker, he exists solely to expose the dark truths about Batman. In that way, they’re equal partners on the page.
Snyder: Oh, man. Greg is one of the best partners I’ve ever had on anything. He’s so creative and so exuberant; he’s got so many ideas. From the page turn in Batman #5 to all of these visual things in Court of the Owls that were his idea. Here, he’s really designing a Joker that’s iconic, I think – he looks different because he doesn’t have his face, or he has it in a different way, at least, which I think is going to be really scary and cool – but at the same time we wanted to do something that makes it look like Joker is going to work. Like he’s coming to get you. He’s got his tools. He might be a little bloodstained, but he’s Joker and he’s coming to do what he does best. And the core things about him that you recognize as iconic will be there, even though this will be a scarier, almost horror movie version of the Joker.
So Greg is having a ball with it, his sketches are amazing, and the fun is also to be able to let him interpret the terrors that the Joker brings on the page. So if I say there’s a scene where someone’s in the GCPD and Commissioner Gordon is looking for them with a flashlight, you see a flash of white, a flash of green, you see a white hand trailing along the wall, you hear something slinking past… Greg is just wonderful about creating the most terrifying interpretation of that stuff. All I can say is it’s the scariest thing I’ve ever worked on, I love it. [laughs]
IGN: [laughs] That’s really exciting. You mentioned the back-ups a little bit before, but how are they working in relation to the main story?
Snyder: Well the back-ups are going to tie-in in the way that you’ll see how the Joker approaches the other villains in the rogue’s gallery to either participate or to take them down in different ways, and his relationships to them will be explored in the back-ups in ways that I think will really surprise people and be fun.
IGN: And I guess my last question would have to be, what’s your all-time favorite Joker story aside from your own?
Snyder: Aside from my own? My own is always my favorite. [laughs] Honestly, it’s hard to pick, but it’d probably be The Killing Joke, simply because it really blew me away when I read it in terms of the deep relationship that Batman has to the Joker there, and that moment when they laugh together at the end is one of my favorite moments in all of comics. But also The Dark Knight Returns; the fact that Joker was catatonic until Batman returned. There’s something fascinating to me about that.
The other one that is really important to me that I think maybe gets overlooked sometimes is the animated Joker in Batman Beyond: Return of the Joker. I think that’s one of the best Joker stories ever; it’s so dark and so piercing in terms of the Joker’s psychology and how it relates to Bruce and what would happen if he knew who he was and how far he’s willing to go. All of those things are really well explored there. So I don’t know, there’s a constellation of things that I love. Also, Grant Morrison’s Arkham Asylum for its strange transgender weirdness with him. But at the end of the day, that’s what I love. He’s a character who, at his core, in all of his interpretations, is deeply terrifying, and deeply exciting to use for that reason. He comes at Batman in a way that exposes the greatest nightmares of Batman’s heart, which is incredibly fresh and exciting and horrifying.
IGN: Well, awesome, I’m really excited for it, man. I was instantly pumped when I saw that teaser. [laughs]
Snyder: Thanks man, I can’t wait for you guys to see it. And thanks to IGN, you guys are always great to us, and I appreciate that.
Joey is IGN's Comics Editor and a comic book creator himself. Follow Joey on Twitter, or find him on IGN. He often dances with the devil in the pale moonlight.
Source : ign[dot]com
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